Whatever the case, I sure found this funny. . .
Dec 4, 2012
Funny . . .
A friend of mine posted this on Facebook the other day. It's a bit of a dig at the Baptist view of baptism, where a person is baptized because they are considered to be a true member of the church (via profession and deeds). I find the covenantal approach to baptism to be much more convincing (i.e. the approach that says what's most important in baptism are God's promises and Jesus' own "baptism" in death).
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Hi Matt, I recently finished a series of four short spots at Northside on infant baptism, and one of the things I learned from a Baptist book I was interacting with is (according to this book anyway) the fundamental issue for Baptists in the whole baptism thing is "What is the church?" In your thinking & reading on this, do you reckon that's the fundamental issue for Baptists in relation to baptism?
ReplyDeleteHi Andrew.
ReplyDeleteI suppose I'd say 'yes'. Ecclesiology is the heart of the matter. Baptist ecclesiology seems over-realized to me. They tend to define 'the church' as 'the elect', and not grapple with the Bible describing God's Old and New Testament people as a mixed congregation comprising of elect and non-elect. Yes there is a pure number of people who are truly 'the church', but their number can only be known in the eschaton. In this penultimate stage of salvation history, we can only engage with mixed congregations. For that reason we can never be truly certain whether we are baptizing an elect person, or someone who will fall away (of whom there will be many according to Paul, Jesus, etc). Therefore baptist ecclesiology is dogmatically contingent upon their soteriology, which in turn is driven by their doctrine of election. If a person "seems" regenerated - and therefore 'elect' - they are the proper recipients of baptism.
Here's the thought process as I read it:
1. Only those who are 'elect' are the 'church'.
2. People who seem to be 'elect' are in the church.
3. Only these 'elect' people can receive the sign of being in the church.
Because of the Presbyterian awareness of the mixed church, we don't subsume our ecclesiology under our soteriology (esp. election). We dogmatically link it to God's covenant promises.
God makes promises. People believe those promises, and are in 'relationship' with God. Those people and the children God gives them are naturally considered part of the church ('in covenant relationship' with God) until they prove otherwise.
For us, the most important thing is God's covenant promises and the ongoing call to faith and repentance for all.
The Presbyterian thought process might go:
1. The church are the community of people gathered by God's Word (promises)
2. The church compromises of elect and non-elect.
3. We can never be truly certain who the elect are - that is number known only to God.
4. God has given the church authority to administer a covenant sign that denotes one's entry into his community of faith.
5. We administer this sign to all who believe, and their children, in keeping with the pattern established with Abraham, who is "the father of us all" (Rom 4:16).
6. We all upon all those who have been baptized to continue to repent of sin and turn to Christ in everyday life.
The NT says Abraham believe the Gospel. That he looked forward to the time of Christ. That he received a physical sign that signified the righteousness he had before God (through Christ) by faith. That same sign was applied to his children. Christ fulfilled the true mean of the Passover, and the sign of circumcision, replacing them with another meal eaten by the faith community in remembrance of his death, and by a bloodless physical sign that again denotes entry into his people.
Dunno if any of that helps.
I'm no expert, and I wouldn't mind betting an enthusiastic baptist will feel compelled to chime in on this.
see ya.
Thanks for that Matt. I've thought for awhile that the disagreement had more to do with the Baptist view of church than meets the eye, but I'd never heard a Baptist say that, let alone in a textbook.
ReplyDeleteHope you and family are well. Merry Christmas!